Episode #6: Ozone Therapy

Summary

In this conversation, Dr. K and Kyle Hulbert discuss the benefits and methods of administering ozone therapy. They cover the various ways ozone can be used, including IV treatments, rectal insufflation, ear and nose insufflation, and gum injections. They also discuss the benefits of ozone therapy for athletes and its potential for longevity. They address misconceptions about ozone and its side effects, emphasizing its safety when administered correctly. Overall, ozone therapy is shown to have anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting, and energy-enhancing effects on the body. This conversation explores the various methods and benefits of ozone therapy. The discussion covers multi-pass ozone therapy, the labor-intensive nature of the treatment, and the switch to major autohemotherapy. The conversation also delves into the process and benefits of extra corporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation (EBOO), including the removal of inflammatory fluid and its effects on kidney function. The chapter on tailoring ozone therapy to individual goals and budget provides insights into the different price ranges for ozone treatments. The conversation concludes with a discussion on topical ozone therapy and prolozone injections.

Takeaways

  • Ozone therapy has various benefits, including reducing inflammation, boosting the immune system, and increasing energy levels.
  • Ozone can be administered through IV treatments, rectal insufflation, ear and nose insufflation, and gum injections.
  • Ozone therapy is safe when administered correctly and does not have significant side effects.
  • Ozone therapy can be beneficial for athletes, as it can enhance performance and aid in recovery.
  • Ozone therapy has potential longevity benefits and can improve overall health and well-being. Multi-pass ozone therapy is a labor-intensive treatment that requires the doctor’s constant attention and the patient’s presence for the duration of the treatment.
  • Extra corporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation (EBOO) is a highly effective ozone therapy that removes solid waste material and inflammatory fluid from the blood.
  • EBOO has a high diffusion factor, allowing for a greater amount of ozone to enter the bloodstream compared to other ozone treatments.
  • EBOO can improve kidney function and urinary issues by reducing the burden on the kidneys and promoting better blood flow.
  • Ozone therapy can be tailored to individual goals and budget, with EBOO being the most effective but also the most expensive option.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Failed Recording

01:22 Benefits of Ozone Therapy

03:19 Methods of Administering Ozone

08:19 Benefits of Ozone Therapy for Athletes

11:28 Longevity Benefits of Ozone Therapy

14:06 Side Effects and Misconceptions about Ozone

19:33 Different Methods of Administering Ozone

26:21 Ear, Nose, and Mouth Insufflation

30:45 Gum Injections and Other Methods

32:54 IV Ozone Therapy

34:52 Multi-Pass Ozone Therapy

35:27 Labor Intensive Nature of Multi-Pass Ozone Therapy

36:23 Switching to Major Autohemotherapy

36:59 Getting Comfortable with Multi-Pass Ozone Therapy

37:30 Working Up to 10 Passes

38:06 Safety and Guidance in Ozone Therapy

38:33 Benefits of Extra Corporeal Blood Oxygenation and Ozonation (EBOO)

40:18 Process of EBOO Treatment

41:45 Diffusion Factor in EBOO

43:37 Inflammatory Fluid Removal in EBOO

46:08 Effects of EBOO on Kidney Function

48:22 EBOO and Improved Urination

49:20 Tailoring Ozone Therapy to Individual Goals and Budget

50:31 Price Ranges for Different Ozone Treatments

53:03 Topical Ozone Therapy

54:33 Ozone in Aesthetics

55:01 Prolozone Injections

Sponsors

This episode is sponsored by Toxic Roots.  The optimal resource for online health coaching for optimizing performance and removing toxins. Click on the link below to get started on finding your toxic roots. 

Website: https://www.toxicrootswellness.com/

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Sources

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/039139880002300212

People

Peak Performance 

Dr. K 

Coach Kyle 

Transcript

Kyle Hulbert (00:01)

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the peak performance podcast. We’re filming an intro anyway, so you won’t ever see this. He’s like, wow, he’s going out hard. Yeah. But today we’re talking about ozone. Um, so we’re, we’re going to jump right in, but before we jump right in, um, I just have to comment Dr. K, uh, you made me look good. So I came home.

Ben Kosubevsky (00:14)

That was a little too much for me this morning.

Kyle Hulbert (00:31)

after a trip down to see you and we did something called Ibu. And unfortunately for the audience, we did a whole episode of this video episode. We were there. He was showing it all how it worked. It was amazing. We explained it. It was thorough and we didn’t record any of it. So we have one recording of a like iPhone camera with no sound. That’s all we’ve got.

Ben Kosubevsky (00:51)

was so sad when you told me that. I was so excited for that episode. It just means we’re gonna have come back down again in a couple months and we’re gonna have to do it again.

Kyle Hulbert (00:55)

Yeah.

Yeah. So, well, we record this whole procedure and we’ll probably talk about it later on the podcast, but it just didn’t work with our equipment, but inflammation in my body went way down. My skin looks better. My face looks better. My hair is like so soft. So I get home and my wife goes, you’re absolutely glowing. And I was like, it’s that Igbo glow. What can

I say?

Ben Kosubevsky (01:25)

Yeah, you know, dropping all the inflammation out of your body, you know, you’ll just, all that like inflammation under your skin, you don’t realize you have, it just disappears and like your veins appear and like your eyes aren’t like sunken in your head anymore.

Kyle Hulbert (01:25)

So, Dr. Kaman. Yeah.

Yeah, that was the biggest thing. Honestly, like when I smile, like you can see my eyes more. It’s like wild.

So I can definitely tell I was, I was full of toxins and needed a, uh, toxin oil change as we called it in podcasts that you’ll never hear. So we will do. Yeah. Yeah. We’ll do it again. One day, probably next time I come down, um, we’ll have a better setup for the audience. We promise. Uh, but until then, we’re going to be talking about ozone today.

Ben Kosubevsky (01:57)

Yeah, they will one day.

Where’s this ozone Kyle?

Kyle Hulbert (02:13)

I don’t know. I heard it’s going away and we’re all going to freeze. Is that something with the ice age?

Ben Kosubevsky (02:17)

I mean, I forgot I breathed in it might kill me.

Kyle Hulbert (02:20)

Yeah. Well, that’s possible too. Well, basically ozone, I mean, at its simplest is just O three. So three molecules of oxygen, correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure that I’m pretty sure that’s what it is. Well, I do know that, um, Oh, three can eventually go to sometimes go to O two and oxygen is a good thing. It’s kind of like that song rain is a good thing, but it’s oxygen. So we want.

Ben Kosubevsky (02:31)

You’re not wrong, but what do we do with them? Why do we care?

Kyle Hulbert (02:48)

to get to 02 from 03. So I think you’re going to explain how we do that.

Ben Kosubevsky (02:54)

Um, yeah, let’s talk about it. So the best way to utilize ozone is to get it into your bloodstream. Um, obviously the best way to do that is to give you an IV of ozone, but if we just ran an IV of ozone to you, that probably wouldn’t end the best. Not saying it’s actually, I’m not saying it’s impossible. I’m just not saying it would end the best. Um,

Typically the way we do it is we remove blood from your body, mix ozone with it, run it back into you. That’s because ozone reacting with your blood is an exothermic reaction. So we just want that reaction, that heat production to happen outside of your body instead of inside your body. There is a tangential thing called DIV, direct intravenous ozone. We don’t do that here in America. Basically you just inject ozone straight into the bloodstream very slowly.

Because ozone is literally just pure O2 and O3, it can’t actually cause an air embolism. It’s nitrogen that causes the air embolism. If you put ozone or oxygen directly into your bloodstream, your red blood cells will just absorb it, same as in your lungs. That’s why it doesn’t make any sense to do it.

Kyle Hulbert (04:01)

Gotcha. So, yeah. So, so ozone is a molecule, three molecules of oxygen, essentially. Um, and then when you get ozone, um, basically it’s a, it’s a beneficial compound that helps do things in the body. And we, the best way to do it is probably through an IV treatment.

Ben Kosubevsky (04:24)

Yep, we’re there so far. I’ve been rambling, but you’re right.

Kyle Hulbert (04:26)

Okay. So, so I, well, I just want to cover that for the layman because you said a lot of big words. He said exothermic and I was like, Oh goodness, here we go. Sometimes, sometimes I go off on the big words, but Dr. K’s got us today. So, so basically. Yeah. So basically it’s this molecule that has some kind of benefit in the body that we inject through IV. Are there other ways to, to get it in our.

Ben Kosubevsky (04:40)

What’s exothermic?

You can do direct injections of it with a needle in the syringe. You can apply it topically. Those are really topical. Oh yeah, we’ll talk about topical. I love topical ozone. And then there’s also rectal and vaginal ozone.

Kyle Hulbert (04:57)

I’ve never actually heard of that.

I’ve done the rectal ozone. I actually have a machine right over here for that. I had a little bags and you just fill them up and you’ll, you hold it. It’s not a great experience, but, um, it does seem to have beneficial effects when I can’t get down there to see you for an IV.

Ben Kosubevsky (05:16)

Mm -hmm. It worked.

Yeah. And then actually there’s also nasal insufflation. You can put it in your ears. I know dentists use it for mouth stuff. I’ve used it for mouth stuff on myself. So basically if a hole exists in your body, you can put ozone into it.

Kyle Hulbert (05:38)

Mmm. You heard it here first. Spice up your love life with ozone. We might have to edit that out.

Um, so, so it’s a molecule, but how does it, how does it help us? Um, how does giving us that extra O from O two to O three, how does that do us any good?

Ben Kosubevsky (05:49)

So.

So there’s a few different things that ozone does in the body. I’m going to speak kind of generally. I’m not going to bore you guys with the exact science of it. But really the main things it does are decreases free radicals in your body. Do we know what free radicals are?

Kyle Hulbert (06:16)

Yeah, there was just like a little, um, I’m gonna say, man, it’s so long. It’s a negatively charged ion.

Ben Kosubevsky (06:21)

They’re, yeah, they’re ions that bounce around their bodies and they’re at a microscopic level. Like they’re the DNA size level. And the same reason that we take antioxidants like blueberries and wine is to reduce our free radical burden. Ozone does the same thing, but does it at a way higher concentration than wine or blueberry. We’re talking hundreds, thousands. And so what that does, I’m sorry?

Kyle Hulbert (06:25)

Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

negatively or positively charged? Are the free radicals negatively or positively charged? That’s what I can’t remember.

Ben Kosubevsky (06:53)

So it’s O3 minus. So when the ozon reacts with blood it makes a particle called ozonides which are O3 minus.

Kyle Hulbert (06:56)

Yeah, so let’s go.

Okay. So the, so the free radicals are positively charged. And so ozone has had a strong negative. Yeah. It has a strong negative charge, which can suck all those free radical inflammation causing things out of you. They can grow. Actually, I guess it doesn’t suck them out. It just, it forms with them to make a neutrally pause, or mutually charged atom.

Ben Kosubevsky (07:07)

Yes, your articles are positive, George.

Correct. Yep.

Correct. Yeah, so ozone when you make ozone that carries a charge and then when they’re actually your blood it becomes an o3 minus then it binds to free radicals in your body becomes o3 o3 doesn’t like to be stable doesn’t like to be Not charged in any way or the other we’re going back to like high school chemistry So doesn’t really matter that much but basically ends up getting sucked into your mitochondria pretty quickly and for those of you that remember high school biology

The Krebs cycle, K -R -E -B, Krebs cycle. That’s basically the fancy name for how mitochondria, which is the powerhouse of the cell, the thing that makes all of our energy, it’s how it makes the energy. It normally takes O2 and splits into O and O, and you get two chains of energy out of that called ATP. When you give them O3, through that same process, you actually get a third chain of energy

basically for free.

So effectively it’s a 33 % boost to these cells that managed to get hit with an ozone particle.

Kyle Hulbert (08:28)

Hmm. So correct me if I’m wrong, but if you get this energy boost from it, and this is one of the benefits, do you want to hit as many cells as you possibly can?

Ben Kosubevsky (08:37)

Correct, yeah, ozone is all about the quantity of blood you treat. The more blood you treat, the bigger the effects of ozone are.

Kyle Hulbert (08:45)

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So let’s, let’s keep circling back to benefits. The, so it clears out free radicals, increases your energy through the Krebs cycle with the extra ATP molecule. Um, and then like, what do people see on a more tangible level? Less, less biological.

Ben Kosubevsky (08:57)

Correct.

Yeah, so the next thing is really anti -inflammatory. So it just calms down inflammation in your body like that thing we mentioned in the beginning of the podcast. And we were talking about Ibu specifically, and we’re going to explain all the different types of ozone. Ibu is just basically the most powerful one. But as we reduce inflammation, that’s a noticeable benefit. You’ll just know all the things that Kyle mentioned, you can see. That’s the next benefit. The next benefit, and this one’s more a biological level.

is it can actually stimulate your immune system to function higher. It can turn what are called TH1 cells into what are called TH2 cells basically to activate your dormant immune system to fight infections stronger or harder.

Kyle Hulbert (09:48)

got inflammation, clearing up free radicals, we’ve got improved immune system, and we’ve got more energy. So this is not something you see that will like, maybe athletes could use to increase their performance or could they?

Ben Kosubevsky (10:04)

Oh yeah, absolutely. So the last benefit is hyperoxygenation. So if you think about the way a red blood cell travels through the body, I wish I had a white screen like I like drawing things, but basically a red blood cell is traveling through the bloodstream, it’s got oxygen basically on its back. And as it travels through that oxygen gets plucked off in place with the carbon dioxide. But if we put an O3 on that red blood cell, it’s gonna travel further because it has one extra one. So it’s gonna travel further before it runs empty.

So basically we’re gonna bring more oxygen to normally less oxygenated places like your eyes, your kidneys, your heart. Things that are last in line are now gonna be first in line. And so when you hyper oxygenate your tissue, it can repair and rebuild faster. And plus you’re gonna have noticeable effects. I have people that tell me that they can see better for a few hours after doing ozone. More energy is definitely a noticeable benefit.

And so I have, you know, we have professional athletes, they’ll come to Ozone after hard workouts or before big games because they know it does provide an edge for them when playing. And you know, Ozone is fully allowed, currently it’s fully allowed by all major professional athletic associations. So that’s…

Kyle Hulbert (11:27)

flies under the radar for athletic performance enhancing.

Ben Kosubevsky (11:31)

I think they know about it, it’s just how do you regulate oxygen?

Kyle Hulbert (11:36)

You can’t breathe deep, not allowed in your sport. Yeah.

Ben Kosubevsky (11:40)

Right? So I think that’s really why it’s allowed is one, you can’t test for it. And two, what are you going to say? You’re, you can’t be above a hundred percent oxygen saturation. So what are you going to say?

Kyle Hulbert (11:45)

Yeah.

There’s no way to show that they actually did it unless they tracked them. But I mean, regardless, it’s a health benefiting longevity type of treatment anyway. So I mean, those are the kind of things that we probably want our athletes participating in anyway, given the strain of their job and effect on their lives. Unlike much, many, many performance enhancing substances are the opposite of that. Take away from here.

Ben Kosubevsky (11:55)

Yeah.

Kyle Hulbert (12:19)

Longevity. There are quite a few that do give longevity benefits, but ozone is one of those that’s, that’s good for both. So tell me about.

Ben Kosubevsky (12:26)

Yep, absolutely. Most of those, I was just gonna say most of those performance hands and things, they’re borrowing from tomorrow basically. Whereas Ozone is just amplifying throughout.

Kyle Hulbert (12:38)

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So tell me about ozone and the side effects. So are there any side effects? Are we going to like just instantly feel amazing or is there like a detox or something like that that happens? Cause it seems like it, it is somewhat of a poisonous molecule to things in high concentrations like mold, cause it can be used to remediate mold.

Ben Kosubevsky (12:57)

Yeah.

Yeah, so obviously the number one side effect, don’t breathe in ozone. It is a lung irritant. It’s actually not poisonous. So I want to clarify this for everyone because I get this question often. So the reason that ozone is associated with being poisonous is because in the environment, when they say ozone levels are high, people associate that as being toxic, you know, like on the weather channel.

Really what it is, ozone is the easiest thing to measure in our environment. It is a byproduct of all those other toxic things being produced in our environment, but those other things are more costly and harder to measure. So they found that they can just measure ozone levels and then know that those other things are also high.

Kyle Hulbert (13:51)

So you’re talking like, you know, when chemicals are or chemicals are being made or factories are making stuff, they’re pumping stuff out into the atmosphere. And one of the byproducts is ozone, but they can’t really measure the other chemicals as well, or it’s cheaply. So they just measure the ozone.

Ben Kosubevsky (14:06)

Correct.

Kyle Hulbert (14:08)

Huh? I didn’t know that. There you go. See, folks, I’m learning here too today.

Ben Kosubevsky (14:12)

So that’s where Ozone got its bad name and now unfortunately it’s stuck with it.

Kyle Hulbert (14:18)

It is toxic to certain organisms though. So like I, like I mentioned, it will actually kill mold. It’s one of the very few things that will actually kill mold. Like bleach won’t do it. Um, hydrogen peroxide is another thing that will kill it. Um, but, but it’s not poisonous to us. Can it kill us?

Ben Kosubevsky (14:35)

Um…

I don’t know how you would be able to, honestly. I guess if you pumped a ton of it straight into an IV very quickly, yes, but other than that, not really. I mean, I guess if you… If you what?

Kyle Hulbert (14:49)

Maybe if you breathe a ton of it in, like breathe a ton of it in, like pure ozone.

Ben Kosubevsky (14:55)

Yeah, I guess if you sat in a room full of ozone for like 30 minutes, it might crisp your lungs, but that, I mean, you’d be so miserable in that room, I don’t think you’d be able to sit

Kyle Hulbert (15:03)

And just leave. Okay. So it’s not really dangerous.

Ben Kosubevsky (15:05)

Yeah.

So, no, but side effects. So there’s three groups of people when it comes to ozone treatments. We’re talking IV to start with. There’s people that feel better immediately. There’s people that feel worse immediately. And then there’s people that feel nothing. So people that feel better immediately, usually those are pretty healthy people. And when we give them ozone, they get that extra energy benefit. They get that hyperoxygenation benefit and they just feel good. Their body’s healing.

Things are happy we get to move on. They’ll sometimes do more of them just because it makes them feel good. Then there’s people that feel worse. Typically, this is known as called a Herxheimer reaction and Herxheimer reaction it is a specific definition of flu -like symptoms in response to a die -off effect of a infection or toxin. Was that simple enough definition?

Kyle Hulbert (16:02)

Yeah, I think it was pretty good. Basically you’re detoxing and you feel bad.

Ben Kosubevsky (16:03)

Okay.

Yep, so heart timer is a specific group of symptoms and then there’s a more broad category of detox effects and I typically just call those an exacerbation of your symptoms. Whatever you feel, you just feel worse. If you have fatigue, you have more fatigue, you have brain fog, more brain fog, et cetera. And what happens is the ozone is killing whatever it’s killing in such a high quantity, concentration in your body. It’s basically it’s dumping mechanisms for removing that toxin or just overwhelm and so it starts to build up in your body.

And then there’s the people, I’m sorry? Yeah, you’re getting bottlenecked on your detox pathways. And then there’s the people that feel nothing. Now these are the most interesting people, right? Because these are the ones that need more ozone treatments and it’s really hard to explain to them why. Because pretty much one out of every three people I get, they’re like, oh, I didn’t feel much from that. I don’t want to do anymore. But if you’re healthy, you should feel.

Kyle Hulbert (16:37)

and then your body has to clear it and that’s what you’re feeling. And then your body has to clear it and that’s why you’re feeling it.

Gotcha.

Ben Kosubevsky (17:05)

good from ozone. That’s what’s supposed to happen. Basically what I’m hearing is that it’s working on something. We don’t know what it’s working on. It’s being targeted towards something. So you’re not getting any extra benefits, but whatever it’s working on isn’t bad enough for you to detox bottleneck. You’re keeping up with whatever it’s doing, but who knows what it’s doing.

Kyle Hulbert (17:28)

Yeah. So those, those people, if they kept doing it, most likely would get to the point where they would feel good afterwards.

Ben Kosubevsky (17:34)

Yeah, some of my patients actually do listen to me. And when they feel nothing, they’ll actually keep going. And once we’ve done enough, enough varies. Sometimes enough is like one or two more. Sometimes enough is like 10 more. But once we do enough, they will eventually start to feel better.

Kyle Hulbert (17:50)

Yeah. So my journey with this was, um, when I started with you, I had crazy like Hertzheimer reactions, huge detox reactions. I felt like trash afterwards. Um, and it could have also been that it was paired with chelation and like extreme detox weekends. I would fly down to see Dr. K and I would, uh, stay for a handful of days and we would do like chelation alternating with ozone. Um, so it was just a lot of my body, but I didn’t feel great afterwards. Um, but now, you know, as I’ve gotten healthy and as I’ve gotten detoxed,

Now I go do an ozone treatment. I feel like amazing. And like pretty soon after, like I’m in the car on the way back and I’m feeling good.

Ben Kosubevsky (18:29)

Yeah, and that’s how really how it should be. You know, my healthier people, that’s they feel better sitting in a chair.

Kyle Hulbert (18:36)

There we go. So I got one more step to make. Yeah. I was still a little woozy when I was sitting in a chair. Maybe it was just the sight of so much blood. I’ve, I used to be, I used to pass out when I saw my own blood. Not anymore. Thanks to, uh, exposure therapy from you. Um, okay. Yep.

Ben Kosubevsky (18:38)

There you go. That’s the ultimate goal.

You’re welcome. OK, so we talked about side effects. We talked about benefits in the body. We talked about side effects. What’s next?

Kyle Hulbert (19:06)

So we talked about how to administer, but I’d like to go into a bit more detail how to administer in each different one. Um, so we started with IV and I’ll let you go into that, but I just want to quickly explain rectal insufflation. Um, so basically rectal insufflation is the most popular way to administer ozone at home. Um, you can buy an ozone generator for 600 to a thousand bucks. You can get a wait, not anymore. They more expensive

Ben Kosubevsky (19:29)

Not anymore.

Kyle Hulbert (19:33)

now.

Ben Kosubevsky (19:33)

This the real companies that you can actually trust are like 3000.

Kyle Hulbert (19:38)

Ooh, they got expensive. Sorry guys. COVID COVID supply chain issues, checking the price up on everything still. Um, but anyway, you can buy these things at home and then you get, um, you either get a medical grade oxygen regulator or you get a industrial grade oxygen regulator and you hook it up. Um, the generator makes ozone from your oxygen. And for you guys who are wondering about medical versus industrial grade, it is, uh, nearly identical. The.

quality and purity. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Ben Kosubevsky (20:10)

actually industrial welding grade is actually more pure than medical because if there’s one single contaminant you go boom.

Kyle Hulbert (20:17)

Look at that. So you didn’t know that I’m learning all kinds of stuff on this podcast today, guys. So, so industrial grade. That’s what I have. I mean, I buy it from like a medical supply station and I don’t tell them what I’m using it for because they probably wouldn’t sell it to me if I did. Um, but basically you get the oxygen tank, you hook it up to the generator. You hook up a bag, a little spout on it, fill up the bag with ozone, click the spout, block it off. You stick it up your butt, squeeze the bag out.

And then you hold it there for about 30 seconds and then you’re good to go. Um, and you get a lot of the same benefits, but it’s not nearly as effective or strong as an ID.

Ben Kosubevsky (20:57)

Yeah, so they say it takes roughly three rectal treatments to equal one simple ozone, and I’m not saying what I mean by simple ozone in a second, but it’s roughly three to one to the starting level of IV ozone.

Kyle Hulbert (20:57)

Is that correct?

Yeah. So, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, doing a rectal ozone treatment is a good option if you don’t have access to a doctor that provides this or cost considerations are a main thing for you, but going to do one ozone treatment in Dr. K’s office, especially as Ibu is much like doing probably 50 or 60 rectal insufflations.

Ben Kosubevsky (21:39)

You can’t, what I’ve learned is you really can’t compare it to regular IV ozone or rectal anymore. Just so different. There’s no comparison level.

Kyle Hulbert (21:49)

Okay, so the moral of the story is an IV is way more effective because you get exposed to way more ozone. You get more treatment of ozone.

Ben Kosubevsky (22:00)

Um…

Kyle Hulbert (22:00)

and you can only take so much rectally before you start having weird side effects. So don’t do more than one bag at a time.

Ben Kosubevsky (22:04)

Yes.

Yeah, so ozone. So the way you calculate strength of ozone is you multiply its volume, the amount of ozone you’re doing, multiplied by its gamma. And gamma is just the strength of ozone, which is measured as micrograms per milliliter. It’s not relevant. It’s just anywhere from one to… We stop at 70, because that’s about your safe level. We’re technically up to 100.

And then there’s a third factor that’s often not talked about. It’s your diffusion factor. Basically how well the ozone can interact with the surface. And that’s the main reason why IV is better than any of the insufflations. It just diffuses better into your blood than it does through your mucosal tissue. Mucosal being like a rectal tissue.

Kyle Hulbert (22:53)

Gotcha. Okay. Um, we’re going to take a quick pause here and I’m gonna let you fix your camera. Cause you were bouncing all over the place. Maddie, Maddie, edit this out, please. Sorry. It was like, I was like, whoo.

Ben Kosubevsky (22:58)

That’s because I’m taking it.

I was kicking the desk and I guess the camera pole is touching it.

Kyle Hulbert (23:12)

Yeah, I gotta be careful too, because when I put my arms on it, it jiggles.

Ben Kosubevsky (23:16)

There we go. I moved the desk away. No. Okay. I just can’t touch the desk. Okay.

Kyle Hulbert (23:22)

There we go. So where were we actually?

Ben Kosubevsky (23:26)

We were talking about diffusion factor.

Kyle Hulbert (23:29)

Diffusion factor. So the diffusion factor, Dr. K, is how effectively that ozone can get into the bloodstream or onto the red blood cells. Or is it the same thing really?

Ben Kosubevsky (23:39)

That’s basically the same thing. Basically, you need to get into your bloodstream and once it’s in your bloodstream, it’s going to bind to red blood cells instantly.

Kyle Hulbert (23:47)

Okay, so it can’t travel through the mucosal layer as effectively as it can if you just put it right into the blood.

Ben Kosubevsky (23:48)

Okay, so.

Correct. And then, you know, as long as we’re on rectal, let’s get into ear, nose, mouth, insufflation, same time. So the trick to doing ear, let’s start with ear. The trick to doing ear is you have to wet your ears first because moistening your ears actually increases your diffusion factor. But basically you get, they sell these as well. Once you buy the ozone generator, you can buy accessories for it. One of the accessories is a stethoscope.

Kyle Hulbert (24:04)

Yeah.

Ben Kosubevsky (24:24)

And then you just, you put the stethoscope in your ear, you turn on your ozone machine. Um, and once again, your gamma could be anywhere between one and 70 is your safe limit. Um, and then you, you sit there for 15 minutes and let it crank into your ears. I typically only use ear insufflation for ear or sinus issues. I know doctors that they’ll use all they have is an ear insufflation machine and they swear that it works. Um, you know, treating whole body issues. I just find this a lot slower. Um,

So it’s kind of like, what are we really doing here, guys? But for ear and stuff, it works great. The one caution, if they have a ruptured eardrum, do not do it. They will feel so terrible, so miserable, so dizzy.

Kyle Hulbert (24:58)

Yeah.

Yeah. How do you know if you have a rupture in your tongue?

Ben Kosubevsky (25:12)

Um, they know honestly, um, that’s all.

Kyle Hulbert (25:17)

Yeah. You put it on, you’re like, ow, it hurts. And then you’re like, okay.

Ben Kosubevsky (25:20)

No, no, no, like they’ll know in advance because one, it hurts when it happens. Two, your hearing perception changes a little bit. If you’re worried about that, have your doctor, you know, most doctors have an ear looker thing in their office. Just have them take a peek in your ears before you do it if you’re really worried.

Kyle Hulbert (25:36)

Yeah. Is that what they’re looking for? When I go to the doctor every time they get the little light thing out.

Ben Kosubevsky (25:41)

Um, that’s one of the things too. They’re looking for like ear infections and stuff. Um, check how much wax I’m sorry.

Kyle Hulbert (25:47)

Gotcha. So it can knock out. So it can knock out an air infection, ozone in the ears.

Ben Kosubevsky (25:52)

I’ve used it for that, it works quite well, yeah.

Kyle Hulbert (25:56)

I’ve heard a lot of different stories from a lot of different doctors and, and, uh, biohackers like me that have used it successfully for ear infections also. And it seems to be like what I’ve heard is one to two treatments and then really bad ones need like three.

Ben Kosubevsky (26:10)

Yeah, and we’re talking, you know, day one, day two, day three, we’re not talking like, oh, one a week, because at that point, just take antibiotics.

Kyle Hulbert (26:18)

Yeah. Okay. So you did

ear, we got nose.

Ben Kosubevsky (26:21)

with your ear, nose. So there’s two ways to do nose. There’s the meaner way that I do on my patients. And then there is the nicer way. I find the meaner way just works faster, honestly. So the nicer way you run it through a ozone bubbler, once again, an accessory buy to your home ozone generator, basically it’s the ozone feeds into this like glass device that has water in it bubbles through the water that takes basically the sting out of the ozone and then you, you know, you breathe it in.

Kyle Hulbert (26:30)

Thank

Are you saying there’s an ozone belong?

Ben Kosubevsky (26:53)

I didn’t say that, but I guess.

Kyle Hulbert (26:56)

That’s what it sounded like, that’s what you explained.

Ben Kosubevsky (26:59)

I mean, I guess that’s technically it. Yeah.

Kyle Hulbert (27:03)

Hahaha.

So, so the water flows, the ozone flows through it, and then you, you breathe in the vapor or you breathe in, you try to like breathe in the water. Okay. Is it hot?

Ben Kosubevsky (27:12)

No, you breathe in the vapor. No, it’s not hot. It’s whatever temperature or water is. And then it’s not so much a lung irritant anymore. I guess technically breathing enough in it still could be, but it’s so reduced that doing a five to 10 minute treatment of it won’t irritate your lungs. And then there’s the other way I do it, which is I fill up a big syringe with ozone. And I won’t go higher than 20 gamma. And you hold your breath, shoot it straight up your nose.

Kyle Hulbert (27:34)

That’s good.

Ben Kosubevsky (27:42)

You can, you know, if you do enough, it’ll actually fill into the sinuses and then you’ll hold your breath for 30 seconds and then breathe out through your nose. And that works great. I use that for sinus issues, even allergies. They’ll pause allergies in people for a few weeks. So typically, go ahead.

Kyle Hulbert (27:59)

Oh wow. So you don’t actually, you don’t actually like inject it there. You just, you just spray it up, right?

Ben Kosubevsky (28:06)

Correct, yeah, it’s not going through the skin, it’s just, you know, you take a syringe and straight up the nose. And so their nose will run anywhere from 20 minutes to a few hours after, and it’s pretty burny for the first like 20 minutes. You don’t want to go too high because you’ll actually burn nasal tissue if you go too high, so you keep it at low gamma. And then afterwards it works quite well, it’s kind of sterilizing all that tissue.

Kyle Hulbert (28:12)

Okay.

Thank

I want to try this next time I’m down. To see you.

Ben Kosubevsky (28:34)

Well, we’ll see. It’s not, honestly, it’s not a fun experience. Usually the only people that do it are really desperate.

Kyle Hulbert (28:41)

Well, and me. I got to, I got to experience all the things.

Ben Kosubevsky (28:44)

Sure. And then the.

Sure. And the last option is oral. So you can inject it. So I know dentists that inject it into, if they’re doing a tooth repair, they’ll inject it into the gums or inject it into the tooth repair. What that does, if you inject into the tooth repair cavity, you can now implant whatever, it’ll sterilize all the tissues so you significantly reduce your possibility of infection.

The other option, I’ve done gum injections. It can help with gum inflammation, gum recession. This is direct injections into the gums, but I’ve seen it reduce inflammation. I’ve seen it actually regrow gums in certain circumstances.

Kyle Hulbert (29:28)

Wow. What does, do you know what causes that? The regrowth effect.

Ben Kosubevsky (29:31)

What? Gingivitis? Well, I think it’s, well, gingivitis is recession, right? Gingivitis is just inflammation in the gums. Usually it’s one of a couple of things. Could be genetic, could be inflammation, could be infectious. So if you reduce the infectious in the inflammation, you’re covering two thirds of the causes and then two thirds of the time it will regrow.

Kyle Hulbert (29:54)

while I had the opposite of that when I was young, the doctor said I might have to go get a gum harvesting surgery because I had too many gums. It was like going up my teeth. And they said, if it goes any further, they’re like, you’re at the line. We’re going to have to take you in from surgery. Cut your gums off. I was like, huh? I don’t want to do that. Yeah, it didn’t stop. Thank goodness. But it was scary.

Ben Kosubevsky (30:07)

Oh, that’s…

This is terrible.

Yeah, that’s like, you know, to me, that sounds like one of those things that you do it and then 10 years later, you’re dealing with gum recession and you’re like, what?

Kyle Hulbert (30:30)

Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned injecting directly into the gums. Um, and I can speak to this a little bit because you did this on me, uh, to help clear an infection. Correct? Is that what we were going after? A cavitation?

Ben Kosubevsky (30:45)

You had a cavitation, yes. And that’s a whole different beast. Let’s not even get the cavitations right now. Let’s talk about IBOs, because those are a whole different crazy discussion.

Kyle Hulbert (30:55)

Okay. We’ll get to that later, but anyway, he injected my gums and it really was not painful. Um, I thought it was going to be painful, but it really honestly didn’t even, it was hardly anything.

Ben Kosubevsky (31:01)

No.

Yeah, I numb you first just like the dentist numbs you so you don’t feel much after the numbing and then you know it depends what we’re doing the things you mentioned cavitations some people do find incredibly painful most people don’t feel much though.

Kyle Hulbert (31:22)

Okay, so we got ear, nose, we got gums, mouth, we’ve got rectal insufflation, and now we’re going to either topical or IV. You pick our next destination.

Ben Kosubevsky (31:23)

Okay.

I was gonna say I could keep distracting. I remember another one of bladder. You can actually, yeah, you can put a Foley catheter in and inject ozone straight into the bladder. Bladder cystitis, it’s really quite good for that. Chronic inflammation, infection in the bladder. You put ozone straight up there and it works quite well.

Kyle Hulbert (31:40)

Huh.

I have heard of a doctor that does, um, it’s much scarier than the way you, uh, we’re offering to do something like it, but he takes a giant needle. Yep. Yep. And he goes into the prostate and injects it with like methylene blue ozone. And then I think he mixes like a little bit like exosomes or something in there. I don’t know what else he does, but apparently it’s extremely painful.

Ben Kosubevsky (32:04)

Straight into the bladder.

Yup.

Yeah. Um.

It doesn’t sound pleasant. To be fair, it works. It’s just not pleasant.

Kyle Hulbert (32:28)

Yeah.

Ben Kosubevsky (32:30)

Okay, now let’s get into IV. Let’s stop teasing it. Okay, so IV, like we mentioned, IV is all about the strength multiplied by the volume multiplied by the diffusion factor. But the way you increase the amount of ozone that you can apply is you increase the quantity of blood that you are removing to treat. So the base one is…

Kyle Hulbert (32:35)

Hehehe.

Ben Kosubevsky (32:54)

So there’s a few levels. Let me explain the levels first. There’s simple or minor auto -hemotherapy. This is 60 to 100 cc’s of blood. Take it out into a bag, mix it with blood and run it back in. There’s major auto -hemotherapy. This is 200 cc’s of blood. Pull out into a bag, mix it with ozone, run it back in. There is multi -pass or 10 -pass. This is 200 cc’s of blood per pass. It can be done up to 10 times. Just into a glass bottle and back into.

And then there’s EBU. And EBU is extracorporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation, or ozondialysis is its generic name. So let’s start with simple. Simple, we’re going to take out 60 to 100 CCs of blood. We’re going to double the, whatever amount of blood we take out, we’re going to double it. And that’s the amount of ozone we’re putting in. This process takes about 20, 30 minutes just for it to drip back in. There’s no pressure on this. So just, I normally, I put mine in saline to keep it from clotting.

Plus it adds a little bit more surface area for the ozone to bind with because ozone you can also do hyper ozonated saline infusions where you just take a bag of saline put ozone into it and drip it back in If you can’t get blood out of someone there’s an okay way to do it not quite the same diffusion factor But anyway, so we drip that into you The next is major auto chemotherapy. So this is the most common one in America right now. I

It is a big bag like this. They usually put it on the floor. Some fancier people have a vacuum for it. The blood runs out. It fills this bag. It takes like 30 minutes to fill this bag. They mix ozone with it. They run it back into you. So it takes about 45 minutes per pass. They could do up to three passes with it. So if you’re doing three passes, you’re sitting there for like almost two hours. So it’s quite a process. It works really well, but it’s quite a process. The next one is multi -pass. Like I mentioned, it’s 200 cc’s

of blood.

per pass and you could do a pass in like three to five minutes depending on your blood flow. So even 10 passes, you’re done in like 50 minutes. So it is superior to major auto -homotherapy. It’s not as popular. Really, there’s only two companies that make a multi -pass machine. One is a German machine called Sotsman install or new name is Aqua Pro. And then I forget the other American company’s name. This is what I have in my office and…

Up until I got an eBoo, that’s the bulk of what I did with the multi -pass.

Kyle Hulbert (35:27)

So the multipass, a lot of doctors will offer ozone but don’t quite do the multipass because of how labor intensive it is, correct?

Ben Kosubevsky (35:35)

It’s your attack. So all the other ones, you pretty much turn on walk away, come back in a bit, do something else and walk away again. Multi pass you are glued to this bottle for like an hour. Yes. So, you know, I’m constantly interacting with the bottle. You have to keep swirling. It doesn’t clot. There’s a pump. There’s a vacuum. They just keep playing with to maintain your pressures.

Kyle Hulbert (35:45)

doctor’s glued to this bottle. The patient’s glued to the chair no matter what they’re doing. Yeah. So.

Yeah, there’s a doctor here in Greenville that I was visiting and they switched from multi pass to the major that you were mentioning just because they administer it via nurses and they couldn’t figure out how to train the nurses effectively to do the difficult multi pass. So they wanted the more simple major and it just worked for them.

Ben Kosubevsky (36:21)

Yeah.

Multi -pass? Yep.

Kyle Hulbert (36:23)

But the patients were there for a long time. I mean, I would come in, I’d get my IV treatment, I’d be gone and the patient was there the whole time.

Ben Kosubevsky (36:31)

Yeah, multi -passive probably took me about six months before I was comfortable with it. Now I’ve done, I don’t know, well over a thousand treatments with them, pretty comfortable with it now, but it takes a while to get used to it just because it’s a lot of troubleshooting. I always put it like this, you know, you could teach a monkey how to run it, if everything’s going really well, it’s just you click two buttons interchangeably. But if something goes wrong, then you’re sitting there trying to figure out where it’s clouded, what’s wrong, why isn’t it flowing.

Kyle Hulbert (36:58)

So

10, you said 10 pass, um, do people start at 10 pass or do they work up or like, how does, how does that work?

Ben Kosubevsky (37:03)

No, so we always work that. This is more ozone. Unless you’ve done an Ibu treatments, and Ibu is still a little bit different, unless you’ve done multi -passes before really, you have to work your way up just because it’s so much ozone. You’ve never experienced this much before, even if you’ve done major other chemotherapy. So you can definitely have detox reactions to it. So we always go three passes, then five passes, then eight passes, then 10 passes. And then most people stop at 10 passes.

I do have some people that if they’ve done enough like you, Kyle, I will go above. I think the most you’ve done is 17, which was probably a mistake for you at that time. It too much.

Kyle Hulbert (37:37)

That was rough. I felt really bad after that. I don’t know if like everything was dying off, but it was not a good day.

Ben Kosubevsky (37:43)

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, I think what happened was you heard when my other patients had done like 16 or 17 that you wanted to do it, but he had done like 10 times as many as you have.

Kyle Hulbert (37:57)

For the record, ladies and gentlemen, Dr. K is not experimenting on me. I am coming to him asking for these things and he is doing it

somewhat begrudgingly. Yeah. So I’m pushing the limits. Um, and he’s kind of being my, my guide to how safely I can push the limits on things. Um, this is a good time to say that I’m not a doctor and Dr. K is a doctor, but we are not giving any medical advice. We are simply educating.

Ben Kosubevsky (38:06)

The Grudge of Life.

Yeah, because I figure –

Kyle Hulbert (38:26)

So if you would like to receive any of these treatments, please consult with your medical provider. Thank you.

Ben Kosubevsky (38:33)

So yeah, I figure he’s gonna do things anyway, at least I can keep him from getting hurt while he’s doing them.

Kyle Hulbert (38:40)

Yeah. Cause you know, honestly, this is terrible, but if Dr. K wouldn’t do it for me, I’d probably go find someone else that would. And then how sketchy is that guy? So Dr. K might as well do it and oversee the process to make sure I stay safe.

Ben Kosubevsky (38:53)

Yeah, because you know, I will, if it’s too much, I just won’t let them do it. Like that time you tried to do 200 milligrams of Methylene Blue. I gave you, I think, 130 and you were miserable.

Kyle Hulbert (39:01)

Oh yeah, yeah, the IV.

Oh, I was, yeah, puked in your trash can. Man. Okay. So the, so, so you can go up to, I mean, safely larger people who have done a lot of multi -pass can probably go up to around 13, 14, 15 passes, but it’s very rare to go over 10. Okay. So usually, usually, I mean, 10 will get you where you want to go with benefits as well. Anyway, really.

Ben Kosubevsky (39:08)

Yeah, you did. Imagine if you’d done too much.

Correct.

Yeah, pretty much. It’s diminishing returns once you get above 10, honestly. Because at that point, you treated 2 ,000 milliliters, about two liters of your blood. Most people have between five and six liters. So you’re treating about a third of your blood volume at that point. That’s pretty good for one session.

Kyle Hulbert (39:39)

Yeah.

Okay. Gotcha. And then you keep saying this, this thing that sounds like a large bird, ebu. It’s not, it’s not an emo, emo folks. It’s ebu, uh, extra corporeal, corporeal blood oxygenation and ozonation, which we’ve mentioned before, but it means basically we’re going to take the blood out. We’re going to hit it with ozone, put it through, well, put it through a filter, hit it with ozone, put it through ultraviolet light and led, and then put it back in. Is that the simplest explanation of that?

Ben Kosubevsky (40:18)

You missed one step, which is removal of inflammatory fluid waste, but that’s pretty much it. So for the record, this is the episode that we tried to record and failed. So we will upload one in the next few months once Kyle gets back down. But yeah, Ibu, it’s a 15 minute treatment. We hook an IV into one arm and then into the other arm. And so it’s a continuous loop. So we pull blood out of one arm. It runs through a pump, which moves all your blood.

Kyle Hulbert (40:22)

Yeah. Okay.

Ben Kosubevsky (40:47)

hits our filter, it’s actually a dialysis filter. So it can actually filter solid waste material. Ozone comes down from the top as blood travels up, comes out, runs under our ultraviolet light and then back into the patient. Runs continuously for 50 minutes, so it’s a constant loop. You can treat anywhere from two, I mean, if you’re really pushy, you’d probably get close to four liters of blood. So anywhere from a third to two thirds of your total blood volume in that 50 minutes. So this is where.

Kyle Hulbert (41:15)

So this is the most exposure you can get to ozone.

Ben Kosubevsky (41:17)

This is the most, yes, by far. So the big thing is, so I kept talking about diffusion factor and the reason no one’s ever really talked about diffusion factor before is it hasn’t really mattered before. So most of those other ozone treatments, we’re talking about a pool of ozone hitting a pool of blood and they meet in the middle and whatever diffuses, diffuses, ozone rises to the top because it’s a gas, sits above the blood and that’s pretty much it. With Ibu, that filter,

so the filter,

It’s about this big, it’s about a foot tall and like two inches in diameter. But it has one and a half square meters of surface area in it, which is massive. I don’t know how many feet one and a half meters is. Let me Google it. That’s about five feet, five by five feet of surface area, which is huge. And so your blood is getting spread out really, really thinly. And so you have a massive diffusion factor.

So my best estimate, I’m sure there are people out there that will disagree with me, but my best estimate is your diffusion factor for multi -pass or major or whatever is probably about like 0 .1 to 0 .2 at best. Whereas with Ibu, we’re probably hitting a diffusion factor of 0 .9. And so even though Ibu runs at a lower gamma, your diffusion factor is so high that you’re getting way more into your bloodstream.

Along with that, the inflammatory waste I mentioned. So I put it like this, the more sick someone is, the more inflamed they are. And the more inflamed you are, the more water you retain, if that makes sense. And so when you take that inflamed blood and you run it against a pressurized gradient, which that filter, because it’s having ozone fed into it all the time, is pressurized, when you run the inflamed blood through a pressurized gradient, you’re going to strip out the inflammatory fluid.

And we just collect all the buck at the bottom so you can see how much came at you. So that’s really the bigger two benefits. And that’s why you can’t compare eBoo to the other ozone treatments. It’s the two big things. It’s the filter. So you’re removing solid waste material, things like heavy metals and molds and viruses and bacteria and fungi and whatever else is in your bloodstream that shouldn’t be. And then the other part of it is removing all the inflammatory fluid, which you don’t do with the other ozone treatments.

Kyle Hulbert (43:37)

So it’s a, I think we said this on our other podcast that won’t air, but it’s like an oil change for your body. Essentially we’re getting rid of all of the bad stuff, including solid and the ozone is actually working on infections and other things that aren’t necessarily solid and wouldn’t be trapped in the filter, pulling out the inflammatory waste and then good clean, healthy blood is coming back in.

Ben Kosubevsky (43:58)

Correct. So in my experience, I have done, I don’t know how many now, we do about 30 eBoo’s a month in my office, between 20 and 30, most often 30. And which as I’m hearing now, I went to a eBoo conference a few months ago and I was like, oh great, I have so many questions, because I built my own machine. I bought all the individual parts and then kind of combined them with some help from some friends.

And so I went out and this conference was sponsored by one of the commercial manufacturers. There’s three or four different commercial generators. So I went out there with a bunch of questions like, oh, hopefully, you know, people have done more eBoo’s than me and will have answers to my questions. No one has answers. Most of you have done maybe 30 eBoo’s period. The only people that I know have done more, it’s one guy out in California and then one of the trainers for the company. He’s overseeing like seven or eight hundred treatments.

But really, Ibu, it’s what?

Kyle Hulbert (44:55)

So you’ve done a few hundred. So you’ve done a few hundred of them.

Ben Kosubevsky (44:59)

I’ve done, in October I had done 300, so now November, December, January, February, I’m probably over 400 now.

Kyle Hulbert (45:10)

Nice. So with the…

Ben Kosubevsky (45:11)

And so really, the reason I was rambling on about that is my biggest question was what is the fluid? And why is mine clear? Why are some people’s foamy? Why are some people’s yellow or red? So when we were building ours, we did some testing and some of the testing was done by a doctor friend of mine out in a different country that I won’t mention because ozone is frowned upon out there. So we was finding if the ozone, if this.

Waste fluid wasn’t clear, it was usually hemolyzed blood. Your waste fluid should be clear after Ibu. And I know there’s doctors out there that will disagree with me, but show me I’m wrong, honestly. It’s hemolyzed blood, which is not a good thing. You should have clear waste fluid. And so as far as I can figure, it’s basically just water with some inflammatory proteins and maybe some electrolytes, but there shouldn’t really be much else in there.

Kyle Hulbert (46:08)

Okay. I heard of a doctor out in California who tested the fluid and he said he found all kinds of inflammatory things, like some heavy metals and some infection stuff and just things that cause inflammation, basically.

Ben Kosubevsky (46:23)

Yeah.

Absolutely. But that’s all microscopic, so it shouldn’t change the color of your fluid.

Kyle Hulbert (46:31)

Yeah, that makes sense. So, um, you mentioned, you mentioned that the more inflamed you are, the more water your body holds, um, the more fluid you hold. And that comes off, um, in the, in the, the fluid bucket, basically when you’re doing an e -boo, but when I did my e -boo, um, I had a little bit of fluid and like, you know, like the bottom third of the bucket. Um, but I peed like, like 10 times that day. I was like, always peeing is that.

And I literally lost like two pounds of water weight. Like that day was that also inflammation that was like clearing out.

Ben Kosubevsky (47:05)

So they’ve started doing studies and I don’t know the conclusion of this study. I just heard about it in the middle of it. But basically they were testing people with reduced kidney function. The way you measure that is you look at your EGFR. And so they’d get their baseline EGFR and they would do an Ibu a week and they would get their EGFR every week. And they’re finding that every week the EGFR was actually climbing.

And climbing is a good thing. The higher that number is, the better your kidneys function. So yeah, Ibu, it basically reduces the burden on your kidneys, I guess, for an hour. And so it helps them do whatever they need to do and then they just function better afterwards. One of the cooler stories I had, I had a patient come in and she may be listening to this. I had a patient come in and she had had issues urinating for months. She really couldn’t get a solid stream, which is extremely unusual.

in a female, right? We did an Ibu on her and she goes to the bathroom right after and she says that was the first solid stream she had in months and it lasted like four or five days for her so she came in again next week and we did it again and again it lasted like a week for her. So it was really super interesting why that is.

Kyle Hulbert (48:21)

probably

just so much toxic burden and burden on the kidneys that it gave it that chance to kind of regenerate and catch up and function properly. Or maybe it made the kidneys themselves and the whole system less inflamed, so it just flowed better.

Ben Kosubevsky (48:34)

Something.

Kyle Hulbert (48:37)

Wow. Okay. Um, so the main types of IV ozone and correct me if I have any of these wrong, simple, which is a small amount of blood major, which is a larger amount of blood up to three passes. It takes a long time. Multipass, which is a medium amount of blood, but you do it 10 times. And then. Ibu, which is a continuous amount of blood, um, through a filter.

Ben Kosubevsky (49:06)

Correct. Correct.

Kyle Hulbert (49:06)

Essentially. Okay. So how do you, so someone comes in, you know, I’m coming into your office. I want to do ozone. I heard your podcast. I heard the benefits. Um, what should I do?

Ben Kosubevsky (49:20)

So that’s honestly the hardest question. Really, unfortunately it comes down to budget. Just because ozone IV, it’s not cheap. And so I put it like this, if everything was free, everyone would just do eBoo’s all the time. Just because I found there’s so much better. You can’t compare, you could do as many multi -passes or majors as you want, you’re still not going to compare it to one eBoo. Just because you’re not removing things, you’re relying on your body. If you have, you know,

Two 665 MTHFR mutations, your detox burden is so reduced that you could do Ozone through your blue in the face and you’re still not gonna eliminate everything. Whereas at Ebu, it’s bypassing your body, just removing it for you. So we have a conversation about what your goals of treatment are, why are we doing Ozone, and then we have to tailor it to you. That’s how it goes.

Kyle Hulbert (50:00)

video.

So price wise, you know, I’ve seen prices all over the scale for Ozone, up and down, left and right for all the different types. But I mean, do you mind giving us like ranges of what you’ve seen for the different levels?

Ben Kosubevsky (50:31)

Yeah, so every year or two, we actually try and look at local and national averages of prices to kind of make sure that we’re staying competitive. So simple ozone seems to range between $200 and $300. That includes ultraviolet light. So range between $200 and $300, or without between like $150 and $225. Major, I forget. We don’t do major, so I don’t know what’s priced off the top of my head. I don’t know if you know, Kyle.

Kyle Hulbert (50:56)

I’ve heard anywhere from five to 1500 for three rounds of it. For three rounds. Yeah. Three passes. Yeah. So roughly, yeah, that’s kind of what I’ve heard. It varies depending on where you are and how expensive the doctor you’re seeing and definitely the city you’re in.

Ben Kosubevsky (51:02)

For three rounds. You mean three passes or three treatments? Okay. So 500 per pass basically. Okay.

Gotcha. Multi pass, this one’s harder to compare just because you’re not so many of them. We start at 365 and go up to 880 for 10 passes, including the light. So that’s kind of the range for it. And I’ve seen up to 1 ,200, seems to be the highest I’ve seen. Someone out there may be charging more, I don’t know. California, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more expensive, just because everything’s more expensive. And then eBoo, as far as…

Kyle Hulbert (51:43)

Yeah.

Ben Kosubevsky (51:47)

I know we currently have the cheapest price in the country at $1 ,000 including the Ultraviolet light and then the highest I’ve seen is $2 ,700 for one treatment.

Kyle Hulbert (51:59)

Yeah. I think I’ve seen, I think I’ve seen 900 bucks. Um, but I’m pretty sure it was a introductory special from a doctor who just got the machine. So, yeah. So, uh, but I have seen a lot of, um, 1500s and 2000s, um, especially in the major cities. That seems to be the kind of going rate in the major cities. Um, so like you said, it’s, it’s really what it comes down to budget. Like if you can, if you can swing e -boo.

Ben Kosubevsky (52:08)

That would make sense, trying to get people in.

Kyle Hulbert (52:29)

You should just do eBoo or even if you’re thinking about like maybe a good, maybe a good approach would be, you know, save, save your money, get an eBoo and maybe an at home rectal generator. So that way, you know, you can get a really strong first, first session and then kind of a maintenance with that home.

Ben Kosubevsky (52:29)

Yeah. Yeah.

I would rather people do one Ibu treatment than three or four simple ozones, honestly.

Kyle Hulbert (52:52)

Yeah, just has that much more bang for the buck.

Okay, so we talked about IV. I think we’re pretty much done there. You mentioned topical, and I have

not heard of this. So I must be slacking.

Ben Kosubevsky (53:03)

Yeah. So there’s cosmetic, which actually is injections. You can inject it into wrinkles, into scars. You can do hair regeneration with it as well. Those you’re injecting it twice a week for usually about six to eight weeks, with low dose ozone. And what does it? It stimulates blood flow. It stimulates a little bit of collagen production. So it’s trying to restore the skin or for hair, trying to restore blood flow to the follicles. And then there’s straight topical, which is where you make ozone oil.

You take ozone, you mix it with a carrier oil, coconut or, or not sorry, not coconut, olive oil or hemp oil. Hemp oil is actually the best, it’s just more expensive. It only lasts three weeks no matter what you bind it with, doesn’t matter. But, and then you can apply it. So I, the main things I apply for are cosmetic issues for the face, helps basically look younger. It’s a really good anti -aging one. And then the other thing I use it for often is like fungal nail infections. You just put it on every day.

It still takes like six to eight weeks, but at least you’re using a natural something instead of antifungal topicals. And then you can also drip into ears for chronic ear issues.

Kyle Hulbert (54:10)

Yeah, okay, well that’s pretty neat.

Huh. Yeah, that’s a, that’s a whole new world for me. Although it makes sense. Cause when it comes to biohacking, I’m the furthest down my, I have all kinds of health things I’m working on, but the furthest down my list is aesthetics. Um, so I haven’t really gotten into that world. Um, although you do quite a bit of aesthetics and things like that in your practice,

right?

Ben Kosubevsky (54:33)

We do a bit of it. Yeah. I mean the, the trade name for it, not that I have a license to say personally, it’s the vampire facelift. Um, but that’s just PRP or stem cells or ozone. You’re just trying to wrinkle scars, micro needling with PRP and stem cells. You can’t micro needle those on wouldn’t work too well. Um,

Kyle Hulbert (54:51)

Gotcha. So we didn’t mention ozone injections at all. And I believe that’s a thing. I think you call it prolazone,

something like that.

Ben Kosubevsky (55:01)

We do prolozone, yep. So there’s two ways to do prolozone injections. You can either inject straight ozone gas or you can inject, I know people mix the ozone gas with dextrose to make, that’s true prolozone I suppose, because it’s prolotherapy which is dextrose injections combined with ozone. And what that does, when you inject ozone into a joint, unless you’re really experienced with it, I don’t recommend tendon or ligament injections with ozone.

Just because it hurts so much so we don’t numb up really well, but basically it hyper oxygenates the area So trying to increase blood flow increase healing factors Stuff like that. I don’t often do prolozone by itself. I haven’t found it to be as effective as proliferate It’s good at reducing inflammation, but if you’re looking for long -term healing, I’d rather you do prolotherapy than prolozone I often will just do prolozone or ozone injections first

Wait about 10 minutes and then do the PRP or the stem cells. It provides a good seeding ground for the injections.

Kyle Hulbert (56:05)

Gotcha. And then we’re going to have a whole episode on like regentive injections and how we can approach that PRP probably a whole episode stem cells probably a whole episode. So those will be coming down the pipeline. Ozone. Did we miss anything?

Ben Kosubevsky (56:20)

We covered benefits, we covered ways to do it, we covered detox effects, cost. I think that’s pretty much it. Yeah.

Kyle Hulbert (56:28)

Yeah, I think we nailed it. Yeah. And you will hear a bit more about ozone. We’re going to do another eBoo episode whenever I get back down to Florida, see Dr. K. And you’ll probably hear more about it when we do our episode on mold and mold remediation. So we’ll talk about it there a little bit more. So it’s going to be a reoccurring effect. And I’m sure you’ll hear a bit from me about my experimentations with it.

Ben Kosubevsky (56:58)

We look forward to it.

Kyle Hulbert (56:59)

So Dr. K it was good to talk to you and, uh, signing off. This is coach Kyle. You can find me at toxin free Kyle on Instagram.

Ben Kosubevsky (57:08)

And this is Dr. K or the osteodoc on Instagram. Thanks everybody for listening and we’ll see you next time.

Kyle Hulbert (57:15)

Thank you guys. And then I’m going to keep it on one recording. So it gets really simple for Maddie because she was having issues with like multiple recordings, stacking up and confusing. Well, in the, in the bank, how it stacks up, is it like we’re in the studio, but it all shows like individual episodes. So if we record an intro, it shows up as an individual episode. Yeah. So if we keep it on one, it’s one episode. So I’m going to go ahead.

Ben Kosubevsky (57:25)

Really? Really?

Oh, gotcha.

So we have to do the intro.

Kyle Hulbert (57:44)

Yep. Go ahead. Start off. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the peak performance podcast. I’m coach Kyle, and this is Dr. K.

Ben Kosubevsky (57:51)

Hi everybody, thanks for joining us today as we talk about Ozone. We’re going to cover its benefits, its side effects, how to do it on yourself, how to have it done on you, we’re going to talk about its price. I think that’s it. Let’s get into it.

Kyle Hulbert (58:07)

Enjoy the show. Boom.